Night Furies CAN'T be Extinct
Nov. 9th, 2019 05:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
captaincassidy posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
how_to_train_your_dragon Summing up my issues with THW would take way longer than this point, so I'll try to do that another time. Instead, you get a bit of inner thought (rant?) as to why I personally not only doubt that all Night Furies are extinct, but vehemently deny such a ludicrous claim.
Let's start with the really basic stuff: The Hidden World exists, ancestral home of all dragons. We can infer that all dragons, whether they need heat or snow, come from there. Considering we see a young Bewilderbeast, it's a pretty solid assumption to make. That means biomes differ enough to support many different dragon species. Thusly, we can conclude that if all dragons can live there/came from there, there's a place where Night Furies would be comfortable.
Night Furies (arguably just Furies) are the most intelligent and empathetic of all dragons, able to understand most of what the vikings are saying when around them for long enough (whether they listen or not). Toothless has, throughout the series, been shown to be one of the smartest dragons. With what we know about Toothless' smarts, we can assume all Night Furies (Furies) share these traits (along with retractable teeth, the need for the tail fin to function, etc.). It's a species trait, not an individual trait.
If Furies are so intelligent, how would they not catch on to Grimmel's game? Toothless plays along because of the Light Fury, but if Furies mate for life, then what about the Night Furies that would have already been a mated pair? They'd have no bait unless Grimmel caught one (or a hatchling/egg), but Light Furies are said to be his "favorite bait." Why? Because he couldn't reach Night Fury eggs (as they are placed atop a mountain to be struck by lightning to hatch, supposedly), or because he couldn't get his hands on a Night Fury without something else?
Even if Grimmel, who is, say, fifty-something, has been killing Night Furies his whole life, but Valka says they're extinct like six years before HTTYD3... and to our knowledge, Toothless was indeed alone even during and before the first movie... let's say that's thirty years of Grimmel hunting and killing furies. One man, the man known as a legend for managing to kill a Fury when he was Hiccup's age (supposedly), and as far as we're told, the only man who CAN kill a Fury...
How reasonable would it be to say he killed one a week? Or one a month? It doesn't appear as if they live in organized packs (like Light Furies may), as throughout the series, it's mentioned there's only ever one at a time. If there were more, I imagine we'd have more information on them than we do in the first movie, as they'd be easier to observe (even when attacking). If they are loners and/or have a single mate, it would make them harder to find overall.
So, let's say he kills one a month for thirty years. That's three-hundred-sixty (360) Night Furies, give or take a few dozen. Let's compare that to a few highly-adapted lone hunters of our world: jaguars (wp 64k), crocodiles (wp estimate 2k), black bears (wp 14k), wolverines (wp 22.5k), tigers (3.5k), etc. We could also include hunting ground territory (Berk being Toothless' hunting grounds), which would be similar to tigers (who occupy twenty-three to thirty-six square miles), but we'd have to know the amount of islands, continents, etc. within their weather range. We'd also need to account for higher-up areas, such as cliffs and mountains, where they would be more likely to rest to avoid danger (did Girmmel climb a mountain that first time he killed one, or was it already weakened like Toothless? I want more backstory).
So let's be generous (to Grimmel) and say there's 5k Night Furies in their ideal-conditions area. They are spread apart pretty widely, probably one per large island (hunting grounds for such a large animal would need to be much bigger, like the size of the island of Berk)... I don't know if it would be possible to travel fast enough to each area to even kill three-hundred-sixty Night Furies. So let's cut that number back some-- let's say he kills half that amount because of travel time/stops for resources, etc. Remember, we're calculating this as if ALL HE DOES is go kill Night Furies. This would also not account for finding and catching Light Furies (again, his favorite bait), so keep that in mind. That would be one-hundred-eighty (180) Night Furies in thirty years. We could reasonably cut that number down even further, but we're being generous.
Now, let's calculate the average number of Night Furies based on the listed solitary hunters. It may be more accurate to calculate only warm-weather ones, but it was tough enough to get those animals/statistics with limited time. I might revisit that later. Anyways: this averages out to 21.2k (21,200), so let's cut that in half for the warm weather part-- 10.6k (10,600). This only accounts for the OVERWORLD, not The Hidden World. 10.6k - 180 = 10.42k (10,420), which is... not at all a dent in the (assumed) population. It's also likely that at least some Night Furies knew of The Hidden World and thusly took their eggs/hatchlings and mates there, perhaps even spreading the word that no Night Fury who'd been caught by Grimmel had survived.
That's not a stretch, considering how intelligent/empathetic these dragons are. If they didn't migrate each time they learned Grimmel was heading their way, then it would be completely reasonable for them to go to The Hidden World and exit again to go bring back more who would be in danger. We've seen Toothless do this several times himself, as well as the Light Fury, so it's absolutely not out of the question.
Grimmel is right about one thing, though: he's killed every Night Fury he knows about (sans Toothless, of course). And almost every Night Fury anyone else knows about, too. He's made himself famous on this and his technical prowess and intelligence, and I'd say it isn't unwarranted fame; he's simply delusional to think only one-hundred-eighty Night Furies exist in the world (or potentially an even lower number).
As for The Hidden World-- there are most certainly Night Furies there. There's a whole Bewilderbeast, when before only four existed in canon (Valka's, Drago's, Dagger's island, and the egg-- the last two assuming that series is canon). It's also very small, meaning it's either newly hatched or very young (the latter seems more likely). If something that legendary is just hanging out down there, I can't reason why a few Night Furies wouldn't be there as well.
Do I think they're common? No, absolutely not. 10k is a pretty generous number, I'd imagine they were more like tigers, with an even lower population because of how rarely they interact with one another. Being solitary animals that mate for life, they have no reason to cross paths or socialize, and are consider skittish dragons to begin with. You're more likely to see seven-hundred Gronckles in one place than to see even one Night Fury because of that.
But what do you think? I'm only doing some rough estimates, of course, so I'm sure things are faulty somewhere. If you want to see other stuff like this, you can check out these videos from other creators on YouTube:
Are Night Furies Really Extinct?
Why Were There no Night Furies in the Hidden World?
HTTYD Theory: What Happened to the Night Furies?
What Happened to the Rest of the Night Furies?
HTTYD Theory: A Night Furies Natural Habitat?
I have not consulted all these videos recently, so take them with a grain of salt, too!
I hope this sheds some light on Night Furies as a whole based (vaguely) on real-world statistics and in-canon claims.
Let's start with the really basic stuff: The Hidden World exists, ancestral home of all dragons. We can infer that all dragons, whether they need heat or snow, come from there. Considering we see a young Bewilderbeast, it's a pretty solid assumption to make. That means biomes differ enough to support many different dragon species. Thusly, we can conclude that if all dragons can live there/came from there, there's a place where Night Furies would be comfortable.
Night Furies (arguably just Furies) are the most intelligent and empathetic of all dragons, able to understand most of what the vikings are saying when around them for long enough (whether they listen or not). Toothless has, throughout the series, been shown to be one of the smartest dragons. With what we know about Toothless' smarts, we can assume all Night Furies (Furies) share these traits (along with retractable teeth, the need for the tail fin to function, etc.). It's a species trait, not an individual trait.
If Furies are so intelligent, how would they not catch on to Grimmel's game? Toothless plays along because of the Light Fury, but if Furies mate for life, then what about the Night Furies that would have already been a mated pair? They'd have no bait unless Grimmel caught one (or a hatchling/egg), but Light Furies are said to be his "favorite bait." Why? Because he couldn't reach Night Fury eggs (as they are placed atop a mountain to be struck by lightning to hatch, supposedly), or because he couldn't get his hands on a Night Fury without something else?
Even if Grimmel, who is, say, fifty-something, has been killing Night Furies his whole life, but Valka says they're extinct like six years before HTTYD3... and to our knowledge, Toothless was indeed alone even during and before the first movie... let's say that's thirty years of Grimmel hunting and killing furies. One man, the man known as a legend for managing to kill a Fury when he was Hiccup's age (supposedly), and as far as we're told, the only man who CAN kill a Fury...
How reasonable would it be to say he killed one a week? Or one a month? It doesn't appear as if they live in organized packs (like Light Furies may), as throughout the series, it's mentioned there's only ever one at a time. If there were more, I imagine we'd have more information on them than we do in the first movie, as they'd be easier to observe (even when attacking). If they are loners and/or have a single mate, it would make them harder to find overall.
So, let's say he kills one a month for thirty years. That's three-hundred-sixty (360) Night Furies, give or take a few dozen. Let's compare that to a few highly-adapted lone hunters of our world: jaguars (wp 64k), crocodiles (wp estimate 2k), black bears (wp 14k), wolverines (wp 22.5k), tigers (3.5k), etc. We could also include hunting ground territory (Berk being Toothless' hunting grounds), which would be similar to tigers (who occupy twenty-three to thirty-six square miles), but we'd have to know the amount of islands, continents, etc. within their weather range. We'd also need to account for higher-up areas, such as cliffs and mountains, where they would be more likely to rest to avoid danger (did Girmmel climb a mountain that first time he killed one, or was it already weakened like Toothless? I want more backstory).
So let's be generous (to Grimmel) and say there's 5k Night Furies in their ideal-conditions area. They are spread apart pretty widely, probably one per large island (hunting grounds for such a large animal would need to be much bigger, like the size of the island of Berk)... I don't know if it would be possible to travel fast enough to each area to even kill three-hundred-sixty Night Furies. So let's cut that number back some-- let's say he kills half that amount because of travel time/stops for resources, etc. Remember, we're calculating this as if ALL HE DOES is go kill Night Furies. This would also not account for finding and catching Light Furies (again, his favorite bait), so keep that in mind. That would be one-hundred-eighty (180) Night Furies in thirty years. We could reasonably cut that number down even further, but we're being generous.
Now, let's calculate the average number of Night Furies based on the listed solitary hunters. It may be more accurate to calculate only warm-weather ones, but it was tough enough to get those animals/statistics with limited time. I might revisit that later. Anyways: this averages out to 21.2k (21,200), so let's cut that in half for the warm weather part-- 10.6k (10,600). This only accounts for the OVERWORLD, not The Hidden World. 10.6k - 180 = 10.42k (10,420), which is... not at all a dent in the (assumed) population. It's also likely that at least some Night Furies knew of The Hidden World and thusly took their eggs/hatchlings and mates there, perhaps even spreading the word that no Night Fury who'd been caught by Grimmel had survived.
That's not a stretch, considering how intelligent/empathetic these dragons are. If they didn't migrate each time they learned Grimmel was heading their way, then it would be completely reasonable for them to go to The Hidden World and exit again to go bring back more who would be in danger. We've seen Toothless do this several times himself, as well as the Light Fury, so it's absolutely not out of the question.
Grimmel is right about one thing, though: he's killed every Night Fury he knows about (sans Toothless, of course). And almost every Night Fury anyone else knows about, too. He's made himself famous on this and his technical prowess and intelligence, and I'd say it isn't unwarranted fame; he's simply delusional to think only one-hundred-eighty Night Furies exist in the world (or potentially an even lower number).
As for The Hidden World-- there are most certainly Night Furies there. There's a whole Bewilderbeast, when before only four existed in canon (Valka's, Drago's, Dagger's island, and the egg-- the last two assuming that series is canon). It's also very small, meaning it's either newly hatched or very young (the latter seems more likely). If something that legendary is just hanging out down there, I can't reason why a few Night Furies wouldn't be there as well.
Do I think they're common? No, absolutely not. 10k is a pretty generous number, I'd imagine they were more like tigers, with an even lower population because of how rarely they interact with one another. Being solitary animals that mate for life, they have no reason to cross paths or socialize, and are consider skittish dragons to begin with. You're more likely to see seven-hundred Gronckles in one place than to see even one Night Fury because of that.
But what do you think? I'm only doing some rough estimates, of course, so I'm sure things are faulty somewhere. If you want to see other stuff like this, you can check out these videos from other creators on YouTube:
Are Night Furies Really Extinct?
Why Were There no Night Furies in the Hidden World?
HTTYD Theory: What Happened to the Night Furies?
What Happened to the Rest of the Night Furies?
HTTYD Theory: A Night Furies Natural Habitat?
I have not consulted all these videos recently, so take them with a grain of salt, too!
I hope this sheds some light on Night Furies as a whole based (vaguely) on real-world statistics and in-canon claims.